Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/19/1998 03:50 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL                                    
            SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                        
                 February 19, 1998                                             
                     3:50 p.m.                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Representative Con Bunde, Chairman                                             
Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman                                        
Representative Brian Porter                                                    
Representative Fred Dyson                                                      
Representative J. Allen Kemplen                                                
Representative Tom Brice                                                       
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Representative Al Vezey                                                        
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
* HOUSE BILL NO. 300                                                           
"An Act relating to health insurance; and providing for an                     
effective date."                                                               
                                                                               
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                          
                                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 350                                                             
"An Act requiring that the cost of contraceptives and related                  
health care services be included in health insurance coverage."                
                                                                               
     - PASSED HB 350 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                          
                                                                               
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 148                                      
"An Act relating to the public school funding program; relating to             
the definition of a school district, to the transportation of                  
students, to school district layoff plans, to the special education            
service agency, to the child care grant program, and to compulsory             
attendance in public schools; and providing for an effective date."            
                                                                               
     - PASSED CSSSHB 148(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                 
                                                                               
(* First public hearing)                                                       
                                                                               
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                
                                                                               
BILL: HB 300                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: HEALTH CARE INSURANCE                                             
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) BUNDE, James                                    
                                                                               
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                          
01/12/98      2023     (H)  PREFILE RELEASED  1/2/98                           

01/12/98 2023 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)

01/12/98 2023 (H) HES, LABOR & COMMERCE 02/19/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 350 SHORT TITLE: INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR CONTRACEPTIVES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) CROFT, Phillips, Bunde, Green, James, Berkowitz, Davies, Elton, Kemplen Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action

01/26/98 2133 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)

01/26/98 2133 (H) HES, L&C 02/04/98 2223 (H) COSPONSOR(S): ELTON 02/10/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 02/10/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 02/16/98 2336 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KEMPLEN 02/19/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 148 SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL FUNDING ETC./ CHILD CARE GRANTS SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 02/18/97 382 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/18/97 382 (H) HES, FINANCE 04/04/97 988 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-REFERRALS 04/04/97 988 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 04/04/97 989 (H) HES, FINANCE 04/08/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 04/08/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 04/24/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 04/24/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 04/28/97 (H) HES AT 3:30 PM CAPITOL 106 04/28/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 04/30/97 (H) HES AT 3:30 PM CAPITOL 106 04/30/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 08/25/97 (H) HES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 205 08/25/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 09/30/97 (H) HES AT 9:00 AM ANCHORAGE LIO 09/30/97 (H) MINUTE(HES)

01/27/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106

01/27/98 (H) MINUTE(HES)

01/29/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106

01/29/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 02/05/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 02/05/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 02/17/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 02/17/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 02/19/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 WITNESS REGISTER PATTI SWENSON, Legislative Assistant to Representative Con Bunde Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 104 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: (907) 465-6824 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 300. DAN PITTS, Dentist 155 Smith Way Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-4989 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 300. TIM WOLLER, Dentist; and President, Alaska Dental Society 3529 College Road, Number 205 Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Telephone: (907) 479-6747 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 300. ROB ROBINSON, Dentist 935 Westpoint Drive, Suite 201 Wasilla, Alaska 99654 Telephone: (907) 373-0747 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 300. DEE JAY JOHANNESSEN, Executive Director Aids Care Network 3650 Lake Otis Parkway Anchorage, Alaska 99507 Telephone: (907) 563-2437 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 300. QUINN McKENNA, Operations Administration Providence Health Systems in Alaska 10710 Dolly Madison Eagle River, Alaska 99577 Telephone: (907) 261-3134 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 300. JIM JORDAN, Executive Director Alaska State Medical Association 4107 Laurel Street Anchorage, Alaska 99508 Telephone: (907) 562-0304 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 300. REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 430 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: (907) 465-2116 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented as the sponsor of HB 350. EDDY JEANS, Manager School Finance Section Education Support Services Department of Education 801 West 10th Street, Suite 200 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894 Telephone: (907) 465-2891 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSHB 148. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-11, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN CON BUNDE reconvened the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting at 3:50 p.m. Members present were Representatives Bunde, Green, Porter, Dyson, Kemplen and Brice. HB 300 - HEALTH CARE INSURANCE Number 0008 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first item on the agenda was HB 300, "An Act relating to health insurance; and providing for an effective date." Number 0073 CHAIRMAN BUNDE read the following sponsor statement into the record: "Often, insurers use health care consumers as trading chips in order to obtain services for a lower price. The problem is that the patients involved don't know always know they've been traded away until they come to use the service, and then many times, become aware that they are not able to go to the provider of their choice. House Bill 300 protects the rights of health care consumers to choose appropriate medical care. This legislation prohibits insurers from reimbursing a covered person at a different rate because of the person's choice of health care provider." CHAIRMAN BUNDE directed the committee's attention to the proposed committee substitute. Number 0147 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER made a motion to adopt proposed committee substitute 0-LS1248\K, Ford, 2/19/98, as a work draft. There being no objection, that version was before the committee. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked Patti Swenson to come forward to present her testimony. Number 0168 PATTI SWENSON, Legislative Assistant to Representative Con Bunde, Alaska State Legislature, testified, "The legislation before you today is HB 300; it concerns the rights of patients to choose who will provide their medical care. This legislation also supports health care providers by giving some recourse to physicians if their patient's treatment is denied. "House Bill 300 holds implications for all health care consumers. Managed care organizations as well as preferred provider organizations (PPOs) have traditionally limited their enrollees' choice of provider by imposing a closed panel or closed network of providers. By enabling consumers to choose their provider the closed panel will expand to meet the consumers needs. Choice is important to consumers. It is an arbiter of quality and lets them get the care they need, which may otherwise be limited by managed care organizations. These limits are due to the built-in incentive to reduce medically inappropriate and unnecessary care, as well as care that is actually needed. "Many people think that managed care, PPOs and other similar plans contain costs without sacrificing medical benefits or attracting intrusive governmental regulations. However, it is the health care consumers that are making the sacrifice. "Insurers promise preferred providers a high volume of patients in exchange for charging lower rates for their services. The idea is that, as medical costs rise, they have to contain costs to maintain affordability and access to health care. The reality is, insurers are using health care consumers as bargaining chips, without their knowledge or consent. Because of the insurers bargaining, health care consumers now face restrictions on the type of care they receive and where they can get it. "The optimism about cost containment is misplaced. Managed care and PPO contracts are subject to the same upward pressure on costs, resulting from new technology and rising wages, that other providers face. Unable to control these forces, managed care providers have instead kept costs below those of fee-for-service providers. They accomplish this by using fewer hospital days, denying newer and perhaps more expensive treatment for patients, and by reducing access by limiting the number of care providers in a PPO. This strategy delays treatment to the point that it may not be done or it forces the patient outside the plan where remuneration for the treatment is lower than that paid under the PPO. As more patients go outside the PPO, the cost savings for the managed care or PPO appears to be greater than it would for a fee-for-service p "Consumers have to ask if their medical care has improved or become more efficient since the beginning of managed care. Many consumers say they can't see the physician they wish to see; they spend less time with the physician they go to see; and they feel rushed out of the hospital when they are ill. "Physicians on the other hand say they can't afford to spend as much time with patients as they used to; many tests that they would like to use for diagnosing medical conditions are denied by insurance companies; their patients are not approved for time in the hospital and physicians have very little recourse; and the insurance companies are not paying for care in a timely manner. "Is this the efficient low cost system we were told to expect when insurers were touting managed care? Consumers are putting more money out of their pockets at each doctor's visit than ever before. When insurers wish to contain costs, they simply use less medical services or force consumers outside of the program. House Bill 300 will go a long way to help health care consumers and physicians. I urge the committee's positive consideration of this legislation." Number 0458 MS. SWENSON directed the committee's attention to the committee substitute and noted the following changes: First, the title is changed to reflect the emphasis of the legislation, which is patients' rights; a short title has been added in Section 1; and Section 2(b) is changed to require physician to physician contact in cases where patients are denied care, reduced care or terminated health care benefits. The remainder of the committee substitute is the same as the original bill. Number 0523 DAN PITTS, Dentist, testified that he is currently in private practice and as a care provider he supports HB 300. He explained the first provision of this legislation is patients' freedom of choice. As a provider, this legislation tells him that he is in competition with other providers and his quality of care should be second to none. If his quality of care is less than what other providers give, the marketplace will affect his business. He believes that competition breeds quality of care. Without competition, quality slips. He said there is a grassroots surge throughout the nation as a result of managed care, health maintenance organizations (HMO), preferred provider organizations (PPO) provisions and in his opinion, their concern is the bottom line, and the quality and service received by the patients is beginning to slip. Number 0674 DR. PITTS said the second provision of HB 300 deals with review. As a provider, he has had treatment denied to his patients and upon inquiry, the individual making the decision and denying the treatment is an administrative individual without any experience or degree in the health care field. He supports the provision requiring a health care professional to review the request for treatment. Number 0734 DR. PITTS spoke in support of the third provision which holds insurance companies accountable for their decisions. This is in the patients' best interest and with an open marketplace, the costs will not go up and quality will remain the same. Number 0773 CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Dr. Pitts for his testimony and said that one of the concerns expressed about HB 300, is that prices will go up if providers do not have a guaranteed market. Competition will cause the price of medical care to explode. He gave several examples of prices going down as competition increased. Based on Dr. Pitts' testimony, it appeared that he did not believe a guaranteed market was necessary to keep cost containment on dental care. DR. PITTS said the marketplace will control the cost of the health care. If there is a need for more health care providers in an area, more health care providers will move in, whether it be in dentistry or medicine. As a point of interest, in Alaska a dental license can be obtained by applying for it as long as the individual has a license in another state and five years experience. He views the position of insurance companies as wanting a locked-up market, or a monopoly on the providing of services. Number 0888 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said in general terms, health care across the United States has gone up at a higher rate than inflation. He asked Dr. Pitts if he knew what was causing that. DR. PITTS responded there are a lot of high technology things happening in medicine now. A lot of the health care dollars are going to a number of disease processes like HIV, transplants, hepatitis and other areas where care is extremely expensive. In his opinion, prevention is the key and as health care providers get better with the technologies, prices will come back down. Number 0972 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN referred to Dr. Pitts' statement that if HB 300 passes, costs will not go up; yet the committee has gotten conflicting information from HMOs and other organizations. He asked if the information from HMOs was false or was Dr. Pitts saying that because of competition, the costs will stay low. DR. PITTS remarked that he could not debate statistics with insurance companies. He noted that Texas had adopted an extremely strict patients' rights bill and the results of a study indicated that costs rise at about the same rate as inflation; less than 3 percent. He added that in dentistry, insurance is not for a catastrophic problem, but it's more of an employee benefit. There's a certain amount of dollars an employee is allowed to spend as a result of being employed by a certain employer; the amount is limited, as well as controlled, and there is co-payment with the patient. All those things built into the fee for service system keeps costs under control. Number 1116 MS. SWENSON directed the committee's attention to the information on cost savings and said a lot of the HMOs, PPOs and managed care organizations have decreased bed time and decreased access to different medical services and that's the way they show initial cost savings. But over time as that continues, these organizations can only stop people from staying in the hospital so many days and stop so many medical procedures before running out of things to stop, so eventually the cost will become even with people who are using fee-for-service. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked Dr. Woller to come forward to present his testimony. Number 1173 TIM WOLLER, Dentist and President, Alaska Dental Society, testified that he has practiced dentistry for 26 years. He was testifying on behalf of not only his patients, but those patients of the Alaska Dental Society. The Alaska Dental Society has 291 members and endorses HB 300. He cautioned that cost containment and cost savings should not be done on the back of the patient, and that's what this legislation is about - it's about patients' rights and the right to have remuneration on a fair scale. If a patient steps outside a plan, the remuneration is at a much lower rate in most cases, which is what he has found with United Concordia in Fairbanks who insures the military dependents. He said, "On a procedure that they are paid in one office, they are paid at a much lower rate in another office. This is payment back to the patient under that schedule." If indeed there is cost savings, the cost savings are then borne by the patient. Number 1251 DR. WOLLER said dentistry is a relationship with the patient; it's not like a medical surgeon who operates once on a patient and never sees that patient again. He has patients that have been his patients since he started his practice 26 years ago and have become comfortable with him doing their dentistry. When patients are negotiated into a preferred provider plan, those patients generally don't have the input; the employer decides that. But once the patient is in the preferred provider plan, it becomes a dictate as to what provider the patient can see and is severely penalized for going outside that plan. DR. WOLLER said, "I'd like them to not be as severely penalized. We're not trying to call this an any willing provider bill, whereby a dentist would go ahead and accept as 100 percent payment, thereby competing directly with the PPO person who is admittedly given a lower rate to garner more patients. We're simply saying that they should not be as heavily penalized; they should get the same amount of money for the procedure to see their dentist. They're going to have to have a co-pay; there's still going to be some financial imposition, but it will not be the penalty by the insurance company. That's the big provision." Number 1317 DR. WOLLER referred to the gag order provision and said in the Lower 48, providers are joining an HMO or a PPO, and in signing onto that, the provider is guaranteeing not to discuss certain procedures with a patient. These procedures are usually high end cost procedures and could be in the patient's best interest. These are commonly known as gag orders. At this point, this has not been imposed in Alaska, but the language was inserted in HB 300 to prevent that from happening. Dr. Woller said the Alaska Dental Society favors the recourse provision, and suggested the language be changed to read "an Alaska licensed physician or dentist." It's not restrictive on the insurance companies; it's meant to have recourse for the patient. The attorney general's office has advised that if the person auditing or reviewing the plan for the insurance company is not Alaska licensed, the attorney general's office has no recourse against that person; thus the patient doesn't have the ability to get an answer from the insurance company. Number 1400 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked what the impact of that requirement would be on a national insurance company, whose headquarters are located in Chicago, for example. DR. WOLLER responded that Alaska licensure is very broadly available. An individual who passes the western regional examination, a consortium of about 15 western states, can simply apply and get an Alaska license. CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Dr. Woller for his testimony and asked Dr. Robinson to present his comments. Number 1464 ROB ROBINSON, Dentist, stated he is not currently practicing, but was testifying on behalf of individuals in the Mat-Su Valley who have expressed concerns. He testified in support of HB 300 and doesn't view it as restricting HMOs or PPOs. He felt strongly that patients have rights and that's how he views this legislation. He supports the recourse provision as well as the requirement for an Alaskan licensed physician or dentist as suggested by Dr. Woller. He felt it was important for a patient to have recourse in the state of residence through the attorney general's office or the Division of Occupational Licensing. Number 1459 DR. ROBINSON referred to Representative Porter's question about the guaranteed market and said there's still a guaranteed market, the way he views this legislation. For example, if a group of providers want to charge $50 for $100 fee, that group has their guaranteed market and insurance companies can adjust fees however they see fit. The fee is not what he wanted to address; however, if a patient wanted to go to a provider who charged $100 fee, that should be the patient's choice. CHAIRMAN BUNDE noted there were people waiting to testify via teleconference. He asked Dee Jay Johannessen to present his comments. Number 1634 DEE JAY JOHANNESSEN, Executive Director, AIDS Care Network, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He said the AIDS Care Network is a statewide AIDS service organization based in Anchorage and one of the main focuses of the AIDS Care Network is to educate for the proper primary care for treatment of HIV and AIDS. He urged careful consideration of HB 300 which addresses three major issues: The patient's right; assessability to quality health care; and cost. He believes that Alaskans have the right to not only seek out, but to obtain the highest quality of care that is available to meet individual medical needs. While his main focus is directly related to the treatment of HIV, the premise transfers directly to any chronic illness which may be terminal in nature. Primary care for persons living with HIV and AIDS is complex and rapidly changing. Currently, there are over 100 clinical studies taking place in the United States to treat this disease more effectively. It is integral that the outcomes of these studies be instituted in treatment-type protocols in order to institute the highest level of care. He referenced two different studies that have shown that when treatment for HIV infection is provided by HIV experienced physicians, clinical outcomes are optimal. HIV experienced physicians are largely in private practice; not people who will be bidding on these managed care programs and it is important to note that in the state of Alaska there are only ten HIV experienced physicians; seven of which live in Anchorage and none work in the major hospitals. The overall cost of care when treatment is provided by an HIV specialist is reduced by 38 percent and most importantly, the long term survival rate for patients is increased by 43 percent. If a specialist is willing to accept the cost reimbursement rate which is established by the insurance company, the insurance company should have no right to deny access to quality care. It is important in the treatment of HIV and AIDS that everything available be used. CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Mr. Johannessen for his testimony and called on Mr. McKenna to present his comments. Number 1778 QUINN McKENNA, Operations Administration, Providence Health Systems in Alaska testified via teleconference from Anchorage in opposition to HB 300. In reviewing the legislation, he said a large part comes down to choice versus community commitments to pay for health care services. He recalled that a few years ago, health care inflation was in double digits - three times higher than inflation, and employers began to realize it was no longer feasible to continue paying the increased costs, which contributed in a large part to the advent of managed care. He said that managing or coordinating health care is no different than the process the legislature is following to balance the state budget. The choice of constituents is to have all their wishes funded, but the legislature has to work hard to carefully prioritize according to the greatest need versus funds available. In the same way, purchasers of health care, usually employers, can no longer offer carte blanche health care coverage. With limited resources, those employers are attempting to use the available dollars wisely; meaning more careful decisions in purchasing and more oversight of the process when care is needed. Number 1867 MR. McKENNA referred to previous testimony regarding limiting choices and said currently in the market, everyone does have choice. A person can choose a traditional indemnity plan or a managed care plan, knowing up-front there are limitations on the panel and some differences in the benefits. The usual difference is price; the management care plan usually being a lower cost. To the extent that the legislature and HB 300 make the managed care plan and the traditional indemnity plan look more alike, the thing that will change is that the two plans will cost alike and the cost benefits of a managed care plan will be lost. As a managed care organization comes to a provider like Providence Health Systems and requests a discount, the question asked is, "What are you able to offer?" and typically the answer is volume. To the extent that managed care plans cannot offer volume, then it limits Providence Health Systems' ability to give a discounted price. Number 1914 MR. McKENNA referred to a 1993 letter from the Acting Director of the Federal Trade Commission to the Attorney General of Montana, who had implemented any willing provider legislation in Montana and said the opinion of the Federal Trade Commission is similar to his. In summary, it said that any (indisc.) provider requirement may discourage competition among providers, in turn raising prices to consumers and unnecessarily restricting consumer choice without providing any substantial public benefit. CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Mr. McKenna for bringing forth another side of the argument. He noted that discussion will continue on HB 300 at a later meeting. He called a brief at-ease at 4:29 p.m. CHAIRMAN BUNDE called the meeting back to order at 4:30 p.m. with another individual to testify via teleconference. Number 1986 JIM JORDAN, Executive Director, Alaska State Medical Association, testified via offnet and read the following letter into the record: "The Alaska State Medical Association (ASMA) represents nearly 500 private practice physicians and their patients. Thank you for the opportunity to provide commentary on HB 300. "ASMA's governing body, the House of Delegates, has long supported the concept of a patient's reasonable choice in the physician that provides his or her medical care. This concept is included in HB 300. "ASMA's interest in any health care plan focuses on what impact it would have on the quality of medical care and the patient/physician relationship. Generally, the physician community is interested in assuring that: 1) patients have a reasonable choice in which physician provides their health care; 2) patients have a clear understanding of all material benefits and restrictions involved with any health plan; 3) each physician desiring to participate as a contracted provider of care has a fair opportunity to do so; 4) any physician contract criteria, contracting procedures, and contract termination be on a fair and equitable basis; 5) any utilization review or medical necessity determination be accomplished on a peer review basis; and finally 6) patients aren't unreasonably denied benefits after receiving emergency care in a hospital or other emergency facility." He noted the last paragraph of the letter had been somewhat addressed by the adoption of the committee substitute, so he didn't read the last paragraph. The letter was signed by Kevin Tomera, M.D., President of the Alaska State Medical Association. He thanked Chairman Bunde for the opportunity to testify. Number 2076 CHAIRMAN BUNDE noted there had been earlier discussion from individuals who wished to see the review process completed by an Alaskan licensed physician as it related to the recourse provision. He asked Mr. Jordan if he would care to comment. MR. JORDAN said it was an interesting issue and in many other states it has been determined that such activity by a physician is determined to be the practice of medicine. If that is the case, licensure in the state of Alaska would be required. He suggested the question be posed to the Alaska State Medical Board. CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Mr. Jordan for his comments and closed testimony on HB 300 and reiterated that HB 300 would be held in committee for a further hearing. HB 350 - INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR CONTRACEPTIVES Number 2110 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 350, "An Act requiring that the cost of contraceptives and related health care services be included in health insurance coverage." He asked the sponsor, Representative Eric Croft to present his comments. Number 2116 REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of HB 350, said he wanted to report back to the committee on a couple of issues that had been raised in the testimony at the last meeting on HB 350. With reference to Mr. Evans' testimony that he was not aware that most health insurance plans routinely covered abortions, Representative Croft said that is the factual situation in the nation. But more specifically relating to Alaska, according to the Division of Insurance, Blue Cross and Aetna do routinely cover abortions and sterilizations. There is no mandate by law, but both companies do it for their own reasons. Both companies publish a list of procedures that are not covered as part of their basic coverage and the lists do not include abortion. He noted that Principal Mutual Insurance Company, Alaska's third largest insurance company, may not routine cover abortions; it was somewhat unclear. Number 2166 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said there had been some concerns expressed that HB 350 could have a wider application; i.e., that it might cover Medicare supplemental and/or dental. According to Katie Campbell, Division of Insurance and Mike Ford, bill drafter from Legislative Legal Services, the Medicare supplemental and/or dental would not be covered. Number 2192 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to the philosophical discussion at the previous meeting regarding whether the provision of contraceptives causes promiscuity. He said there may be a correlation, but it seemed to him that it works the other way. For example, more promiscuous people might use contraceptives for the very obvious reason they're engaging in that activity, and less people might not, because they don't need to. He hasn't been able to find any evidence and has asked Mr. Heidersdorf for his sources, but as of this meeting, Representative Croft had not received any information from Mr. Heidersdorf. Number 2235 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT was of the opinion the legislation puts a tool in the hands of Alaskans that allows individuals to plan their families. Number 2243 CHAIRMAN BUNDE surmised that if HB 350 passes, insurance companies would offer this option, but people who belong to health plans would not necessarily have to subscribe to that option. REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied that no one would have to use contraceptives if they didn't want to, but the option is there. CHAIRMAN BUNDE inquired if a person would have to pay for an insurance policy that provided that coverage. REPRESENTATIVE CROFT responded the individual wouldn't have to use contraceptives, but would be paying on an insurance policy that did provide the coverage to other people. Number 2276 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were further questions of the sponsor. Hearing none, he closed public testimony and asked the pleasure of the committee. Number 2329 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said, "It seems to me that what we're doing here is not providing the devices, in a sense what we're doing is through the insurance company providing ... TAPE 98-11, SIDE B Number 0001 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON ... devices." He wondered if the argument was that people who have health insurance don't have enough disposable or marginal income to acquire the devices for themselves. It has been his experience that health insurance is so expensive that people who can afford health insurance or have a job that provides it, probably have some discretionary income. As he recalled, contraceptives are not prohibitively expensive. Number 0045 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he is not convinced that the reason people are not using birth control is because they don't have enough money because people who are able to afford insurance or have a job that provides it, would likely have the money. He said, "So then it seems to me if that's the case, then what we're doing is providing a mechanism for those who want to use their insurance company to buy it or just kind of providing a little discount for them because they can get someone else to help subsidize the cost of buying the birth control devices." Certainly, this issue can be argued from a safety standpoint in that there's less health risk if a person doesn't become pregnant and certainly with some birth control devices, there are less risks of sexually transmitted diseases. Is it then in an insurance company's or a person's best interest to avail themselves of these safety devices. In lots of cases it is. It appeared to him the insurance industry is in business to make money and if industry data indicated their clients were better off not getting pregnant, insurance companies would be offering incentives. He indicated he would not vote to pass this bill out of committee. Number 0132 CHAIRMAN BUNDE directed the committee's attention to a letter of intent in the packets. Number 0140 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt the letter of intent. There being no objection, the letter of intent was adopted. Number 0150 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said after much personal debate, he had advised the sponsor the previous day that he would not be voting to pass HB 350 from committee. His concern was with the message that's being sent by asking that birth control devices be provided. It has been his experience that most children don't have an ideal home life and are guided by other outside influences, as well as what is legal and illegal, rather than by a set of principles instilled by the parents. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER recalled when marijuana was legal in Alaska for adults in their own home and said it was extremely difficult to conduct any drug prevention programs for children during that period of time, because it was technically legal. The public perception was that marijuana must be alright because it was legal. His concern is that kids will perceive that contraception is alright because it's being provided. This was not the message he wanted to pass on. Number 0268 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said there were other aspects of society that needed to be looked at. For example, a tremendous amount of money is spent on drug and alcohol abuse and yet alcohol is legal. Tobacco is another example where funds are spent on educating young people, and yet it is still legal. In both cases, insurance companies cover the cost of the associated diseases. He viewed HB 350 as providing a certain amount of safety, not only for teenagers but for young married adults not wishing to start a family immediately, and don't have the disposable income available for contraception. He was of the opinion these types of programs should be covered through an insurance policy. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he was not necessarily enamored with the idea of mandating insurance coverage, but he thought that HB 350 had brought forth a very valid debate and he was going to vote to pass HB 350 from committee. Number 0398 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN made a motion to move HB 350 with attached letter of intent and fiscal notes. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked for a roll call vote. Representatives Brice, Kemplen, Green and Bunde voted in favor of moving the bill. Representatives Dyson and Porter voted against it. Representative Vezey was absent. Therefore, HB 350 moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee on a vote of 4-2. SSHB 148 - SCHOOL FUNDING ETC./ CHILD CARE GRANTS Number 446 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next bill to be heard was SSHB 148, "An Act relating to the public school funding program; relating to the definition of a school district, to the transportation of students, to school district layoff plans, to the special education service agency, to the child care grant program, and to compulsory attendance in public schools; and providing for an effective date." He directed the committee's attention to the two technical amendments in the committee packets. CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained Amendment 1 deleted "1" and inserted "10" on page 5, line 16. Number 0461 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 1. There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. Number 0469 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that he had asked the Department of Education, in preparing the spreadsheet, to ensure there wouldn't be any net loss in the formula. When the spreadsheet was run initially, there was a savings of $10 million to the state. Chairman Bunde said it wasn't his intent to cut the foundation formula by $10 million, so the numbers in Amendment 2 would bring the formula back to current funding levels. Number 0501 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to adopt Amendment 2, which read: TO: HB 148 (version H) Page 5, line 28, Delete "4045", insert "4150". Page 28, line 2, Delete "3400", insert "3840". Page 28, line 3, Delete "3925", insert "4010". Page 28, line 4, Delete "3970", insert "4060". Page 28, line 5 Delete "4010", insert "4105". CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked whether there was any objection. Number 0508 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked for a point of clarification. He said, "So, what I heard you say was the $10 million indicated would be allocated back to all the various sites." CHAIRMAN BUNDE said that was correct, based on this formula. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN observed that it would end up neutral. Number 0520 EDDY JEANS, Manager, School Finance Section, Education Support Services, Department of Education, confirmed that. CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced that Amendment 2 was adopted without objection. Number 0534 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked committee members to examine the spreadsheet and noted that it does not include the area cost differential. It was his intent to move the bill to the Finance Committee where the area cost differential would be addressed. An updated fiscal note would accompany the bill as it moved from committee. Number 0585 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move CSSSHB 148(HES) from committee with individual recommendations and amended fiscal notes, as amended. There being no objection, CSSSHB 148(HES) moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee. ADJOURNMENT Number 0635 CHAIRMAN BUNDE adjourned the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee at 4:55 p.m.

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